Jannard’s follow up to his “Red vs HDDSLR” post.
Here’s Jim Jannard’s follow up to the controversial comments he posted last week and that I commented on.
While I’d be foolish to think that I ultimately had anything to do with his decision – I do find the last line of his post extremely interesting…The one where he states that RED is taking a lesson from Apple and that RED “will no longer discuss what we are doing until we are done.”
That is pretty much the conclusion that I came to when I stated that RED’s main “issue” was to over promise and deliver late within my post. Obviously, I think the RED team is making the correct move. My quote was:
“If there’s only one criticism that I have with RED – it’s that they’ve tended to over-promise and deliver late… basically the opposite of what Apple does (Apple stays absolutely secret about their projects, deny they’re working on anything, and releases them only when they are confident the product is ready for prime time…) I personally would prefer to get hard deadlines from RED on future product releases – even if those dates are overly conservative on their end.”
Again – I’m not claiming that Jim hadn’t come to this conclusion in any way as a result of what I said of course – but what IS CLEAR – is that yes – RED does listen and they do care…
Here is Jim’s full response:
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Heh heh… I’m surprised that so many people are reading posts from Reduser! 🙂 Wow.
Clarification #1. I think that Canon should be embarrassed about pretending that line-skipping is good enough when they have the capability to do much more. I’m sure they will in the near future. Until then, they are delivering much less than they are capable of… which is one of the reasons I started this company. No one in this industry seems to move unless they are forced to. Clarification #2. No shooting professional has to justify what equipment they use… only their results. If people want to correctly point out our flaws as a company, they will only be joining my previous admissions. We have no idea what we are doing. We are always late. On the other hand, I would bet that no company in any industry cares more about their customers than RED does. We have taught the industry about free upgrades, trade ins and customer service at 3am. We have set a new standard for direct communication with our customers, a standard that other companies are trying to figure out how to emulate. I don’t have any problem with someone pointing out that I have no idea what I am doing… I have said that all along. But it is curious that the industry is falling in line to “be like RED”. All I can say is … “don’t do it. You are following the wrong guy.” 🙂 If these other websites are going to post my comments, I certainly hope they will post this one without edit. BTW… we have taken a lesson from Apple. We will no longer discuss what we are doing until we are done. Jim__________________
“Everything in life changes… including our camera specs and delivery dates…” We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude. Last edited by Jannard; 06-18-2010 at 08:27 PM. |
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Tags: Canon, dslr, HDDSLR, Jim Jannard, Red, Vincent Laforet
I am glad to see that the top guy at the company actually reads articles online and cares enough about his company to set the record straight.
I look forward to the day that I can feel comfortable shooting a RED camera that fills my needs at an affordable price and hope that day is coming sooner than later……
Good luck fellas.
Meh, if really he took his his own BTW comment seriously, he wouldn’t have commented on Canon because RED doesn’t make anything that competes against Canon price-wise.
In my opinion, the only reason to have made the original comment is to set the stage for Scarlet or DSMC, both of which are still vaporware. A Red-based rigs can cost as much as ten times a Canon rig, depending on the configuration. So, yes, I expect Red’s products to be better because they’re almost an order of magnitude more expensive, is that really supposed to be news?
i’ve shot on the RED. i’ve shot on the 5D and 7D. I primarily shoot on the 7D now and love it. both Canon DSLRs and the RED are amazing. there is one thing better than both, and by a long shot over each of them – this little thing called FILM. nothing will ever replicate, duplicate, or whatevericate film. just like in photography, film trumps anything digital. i won’t even accept any debate on that. if one should be ashamed to shoot on DSLRs, they should be just as ashamed to shoot on RED. The DSLRs are so worth it because you can really work big on small budgets. That’s not true when working with the RED. Everything becomes more complicated when you shoot with the RED and way more expensive. And you have to do things right when you work on the RED. I’ve done finishing work on the RED in a studio and I’ve done it on a Mac. It looks amazing when you pay for it and have it done through a studio. It doesn’t when you do just do it all on a Mac. So there is a large cost to really make RED footage look superior. that being said, why shoot on the RED when you can shoot on film and get the better quality for the same price?
Don’t be ashamed to be shooting on DSLRs or the RED. Be ashamed that your sitting here reading this and not shooting.
Paul Reply:
June 22nd, 2010 at 10:15 pm
@dippen, I don’t know enough yet about filming vs video, but I can tell you that as a two-decade film shooter for stills, film doesn’t trump digital. Film doesn’t hold water any longer, other than for Large Format maybe. The 5D Mark II as a stills camera is unreal in its ability to practically see in the dark, and return image data that film doesn’t come close to. Plus the ability to shoot any ASA for any image and to know that any image can become B&W is phenomenal, as is the ability to read your histogram when you’ve just captured an unreal sunrise at Grand Canyon, and KNOW you got the exposure correct. I do realize that none of this may impact movie-making, but for stills I just wanted to clarify that. Thanks!
dippen Reply:
June 24th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
@Paul, i wonder what the photography experts would say? i’m hard pressed to believe that anyone of them would say they believe digital is better. it’s easier, has better features, and all that stuff, but when it comes down to exposing your film versus shooting digital, i would believe the very best photographs of the same subject/object from each of the 2 different formats would crown film the winner. I would like to hear what people say on the digital photography vs. film photography. which can ultimately produce the best photograph without any post.
but when it comes to shooting moving images, i am pretty certain the experts would say film produces an overall better quality.
Isn’t it amazing when your voice is heard? That response shows that either you have a strong voice or RED is interested in the opinions of their target demographic. Either way this is a promising sign from RED.
I love this, “Falling in line to be like RED.” Yeah, Right, whatever Mr. Jannard. Let’s look back oh say little over a year when RED was ready to debut Scarlett. Then a small company named CANON came out with a camera called the 5D Mark II that literally side-swiped the ENTIRE industry. What did RED do? Pulled Scarlett off the debut market and proceeded to be like CANON with a totally re-thought combo-cam. So, who’s trying to be like whom? I rest my case.
Every camera is a tool to do a job. 5D/7D have their places, as do the RED cameras.
Lets review some facts for a moment: before the RED ONE came along, in the digital realm there were consumer-grade video cameras, then a HUGE gap, then Pro/Broadcast cameras costing well over 6-figures. RED filled that gap (quite well). However, like most other things in life there is no panacea.
As for other companies taking cues from RED, if you cannot see that this is clearly the case on both the high-end AND the low end, then perhaps you have been living in a vaccuum the last 3-4 years. Case in point on the high-end: ARRI Alexa anyone?
For what they are and especially at the price point, the 5D & 7D are great, make no mistake. But can a 5D/7D shoot up to 120fps for slow-mo takes natively? Can it shoot RAW or is it already H.264-compressed out of the can (think post corrections)? Sure, 1080p might serve your particular purpose and is ‘good’ for now, but if you are shooting a feature that is going to be projected on a 2k+ projector, is it going to be ‘good enough’. Can it be reprinted/rendered later in all of its 2k-4k, or higher-res glory without ANY degradation whatsoever? What will you do with your 5D/7D footage after 1080p is considered passe´(not that far away) and even consumer TVs are 2k+ ?
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Jon Thomasberg
PS – I own a Red One & a 5D
So few executives put themselves out there these days. Paul Buff with Alien Bees comes to mind as an eccentric exception, Ned Bunnell from Pentax, and Jim from Red seem a little more balanced but no less passionate. BRAVO!
As a guy who sticks my foot in my mouth from time to time trying to say or do something to turn the world around I’ve just got to lift a toast to every executive out there who cares enough, and believes enough in what they are doing, to put it on the line now and then. Thank you!
Anyone can go to bed at night, smug in the confidence that they really posted a sobering reality check to that fool that dared to promise more than they could deliver. Until someone has carried the weight of revolutionary action on their own shoulders, until they are all in on something they believe in, and it’s mattered enough to them to keep them awake at night, fighting the call to retreat into the wee hours of the morning, it’s easy to ridicule. Pushing yourself to the point of becoming the subject of ridicule, that takes a different set of stones.
I’ve seen a lot of negative comments on Canon’s video shortcomings but Jim’s is the first I’ve seen that arguably comes from a point of superior performance. Canon and Red will both get better as a result of this conversation. How about the most vocal critics weighing in on the argument? Eh, we’ll see…
For the sake of not using Vincent’s blog as a cross examination platform, I will finish by saying this, Let’s examine facts. Are some companies following RED’s line of products, such as ARRI, I would agree with that, however, CANON isn’t one of them. FACT, Canon’s 5D Mark II sent RED back to the drawing board when they, RED, were set to debut Scarlet. FACT, RED realized CANON had just changed the entire game and were quick to follow suit, well maybe not so quick, but the end result two DSMC camera’s from RED. Comparing the two camera’s is pointless, however, it is undeniable, CANON changed the game…period.
Digital cinema isn’t always red, scarlet or even true blue. Sometimes digital cinema can just put on a pair of Bad Boy sunglasses to see a rose colored world of innovation instead of a money losing toy company.
Imagine a world where a master manipulator with lots of money over promises technology so he can be seen as an industry leader. He would have to know how to act humble, industrious, innovative, groundbreaking, victimized, and even messianic. Now imagine all the devoted junior DPs who pretend they are on the cutting edge with their messianic leader.
Now toss in half a billion dollars invested in big cinema projects with celebrity movie makers, and you get all the endorsements you need to keep a few thousand wanna be filmakers clamoring around an egomaniac cult leader.
While nothing like that exists on planet earth, maybe somewhere in the universe there is a red planet that revolves around its own ego.